Under Latasha Gillespie, executive head of diversity, equity and inclusion at Amazon Studios, Amazon launched its new Inclusion Playbook in June of 2021.
Since then, the streamer launched its biggest, most expensive series, “Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,” which received much acclaim and, sadly, an uproar on social media over the diverse casting of the epic fantasy series. Happened. And the body-positive reality show “Lizzo’s Watch Out for the Big Girls” was nominated for six Emmys, winning three, including one for Outstanding Competition Program and one for director Neneka Onurah.
Gillespie recently spoke to TheWrap about how he and his team, and various creatives like Viola Davis and “One Day at a Time” co-creator Gloria Calderon Kellett, came up with the playbook, how it’s implemented. , and how diversity is put in front of and behind the camera benefits Amazon’s bottom line, even if a certain section of the population is actively trying to shout it out.
“I don’t do diversity work for the sake of diversity,” Gillespie said. I understand the business aspect of this. At the end of the day, no matter what industry you are in, you have KPIs or business metrics to which you are accountable, that your company is accountable – either to its board or to its shareholders or anyone else, to its customers. For. To me, it’s really about understanding the business implications of diversity, equity, inclusion, and access, and how that’s good, not just the bottom line, but all those other metrics you’re tracking.
TheWrap: Part of Amazon’s motto is “Leaders Are Too Right.” What does that mean when it comes to the diversity playbook and the success of “Lizzo’s Watch Out for the Big Girls”?
Latasha Gillespie: This means we were pretty right when we knew we could tell very specific stories about fat, curvy, beautiful black and brown, straight, cis, trans and queer women that would resonate with a wider audience. We saw that with fanbase and audience, but still, it could be a commercial reach, while also an awards play, that we saw [at the Emmys], It was great, especially to see Neneka Onuora honored because she is fabulous. You are going to see a lot more from him in the next year or two. I’m so glad we got to work with her so quickly and she was the one to help bring this vision to life as a black woman.
The casting in “Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power” really embodied the essence of the playbook before it was put into practice.
We are really proud to say that we really got the best actors in the world to play those roles, no matter what country they were born in, what their race or ethnicity was, body type or their sexuality. orientation, we found the most brilliant cast and crew to help bring that story to life.
Following the racist backlash to the show, many fandoms have come out in support – such as the actors from the “Lord of the Rings” films, and apparently, the cast and crew of “Rings of Power”. Do you think that indicates a degree of enthusiasm for what you’re trying to do at Amazon?,
yes i think I find it strange, whether it’s “Lord of the Rings” or “House of the Dragons”, how people can criticize a mythical magical place that doesn’t really exist. If you’re building the world, build the world you want to see. And I think you can do it brilliantly, as long as you’re working with really talented people who will make that story come alive for all audiences. [If you do that]You have just expanded the reach. You’ve opened it up to new fans and allowed people to discover it in a way that they might not have traditionally.
How did you create the inclusion playbook and what kind of discussions did you have with the creators of Prime and Amazon about inclusion?
The first thing we did was actually sit down with creators like Gloria Calderon Kellett, Greg Daniels, Daniel Dae Kim, and Viola Davis’ company, Juvi Productions, and see exactly what we were proposing, why, and then how. We wanted to get perspective from him to better understand: How did he feel as a producer? Did it feel intrusive? Bureaucracy? Reliable? obtainable?
We got great feedback, and in places where they had constructive input, we definitely included. But overwhelmingly, we got a lot of them comments, like “Thank you for looking good as a producer,” and “I’m trying to be inclusive, but I didn’t really have any criteria, it really gives me a guide, and helps me understand how to be intentional in ways I probably haven’t even thought of,” which was really encouraging to hear.
How do you encourage people to get hired behind the camera in inclusive ways? You want to give people a chance, but creatives often like to work with the same people over and over again because they are a team.
I think all human beings look for our people, we find our gotra, who brings out the best. So I don’t think it is necessary for his team and his team against the people. I just want to make sure I’m not telling the creators that your team is terrible. [Laughs] And I understand why it’s important to have that team with you.
But I’m also asking them to stop and ponder: What story are they telling? Whose story are they telling? There is an old adage that comes from apartheid that has also been widely adopted in disability communities: “Nothing about us without us.” If you’re telling the story of a woman of color, specifically an Asian woman, let’s make sure there’s an Asian woman in that writer’s room. If you’re telling the story of a trans man, make sure there’s a trans person in that writer’s room, because for your story, your audience, your customers, you tell a totally authentic, totally nuanced story. want. People can relate.
This is how you create a character and not a caricature. There are subtle differences, based on our life experiences, that shape who we are and how we present ourselves and the way we say things or the way we move, and you don’t know if it’s going to happen in your life. had no experience. We’re saying that if you’re choosing to tell a story about this particular character, or characters, make sure someone in that writer’s room has that lived experience, to make sure you’re doing it right. . We are here to support.
Who are some of your peers who help with that quest?
We know you can’t always rent the same experiences you’re writing about. You can sometimes come close, but then we help you with the resources we’ve contracted with our team, whether it’s GLAAD or Storyline Partners, or Illuminative, an organization with which we work with Native American and Swadeshi works while telling stories. Let us partner with them to make sure it feels right to the community we want it for. We don’t just provide inventory, we actually provide service. I have retainer agreements with those organizations. I don’t want producers to think, “Can I afford this?” “Will this affect a line item in my budget?” Let’s worry about it. You just worry about creating the best story you want to tell and bring to life.
Is this something only Amazon is doing?
One of the things we really tried to focus on with this policy and playbook is to change systems and structures and policies, not one-off. How do we make it part of the structure, part of the system when you work with us? I don’t know if anyone else is doing this, but that’s what we’re trying to do. We are trying to do this not only with historically marginalized communities from a race and ethnicity standpoint or sexual orientation, but also with disabilities. We’re finalizing a few things we’re going to announce soon to standardize some of our mental health resources. We want to make them far more standard, far more deliberate, and far more culturally specific.
Clearly, diversity is important at Amazon, but what do you see as the responsibility of the industry as a whole? What would you like to see happen?
I’ll just ask this question: What is the industry’s responsibility to customers? Who are you thinking of as your customers? Are you tapping into what resonates with them and what they find authentic, and speak to the stories they want to face and experience? I think, as an industry, if we ask ourselves this, we will challenge ourselves in different ways.
When you talk about the American audience, the Latino community goes to the movies at far higher rates than any other race or ethnicity. But how is the industry providing content to that audience? Of course, they go to see stories that aren’t exclusive to just Latino characters and stories. But if you know that they are more prone to go to the movies, it makes sense that you would also offer more material that truly speaks to their authentic life experience.
I think it’s really important. You can look across demographic groups, but it’s really about customer passion. How are we paying attention to customers in such a way that when people watch content, television or movies that they feel are a) they are viewing their own authentic life experience in a way that connects with them deeply and personally? and/or b) they gain experience in someone else’s life experience that feels genuinely authentic and subtle that helps enhance humanity? Because I think we have a chance. It is our duty to entertain but we also have the opportunity to increase humanity.
How has the inclusion policy been implemented so far?
It starts with leadership. Jennifer Salke is true. From day one as the head of Amazon Studios, she has nurtured this culture of inclusion, not only in what she says, but how she runs and operates. A classic example of this is that someone who had worked for me in the past came to work for me again, and as we headed towards an all-meeting he said, “Oh my God, did we give him talking points?”
I laughed, because in the past, we probably had to tell leaders what to say around DEI. I said, “No, but I understand your PTSD, though. [Laughs] That’s it. Watch and see who they invited to speak on stage, watch and watch clips they chose to share in the meeting. You will see that it comes naturally to who he is. She sets the tone. She hires leaders who buy into her.
